I struggle so much with Goodreads because I absolutely LOVE being able to have a space to log the books I have read, but I also hate how much negatively is on there.
As readers we don't have to like everything we read (that's downright impossible!), but I strongly dislike coming across reviews that say things like "this book sucks" or "this author doesn't know how to write" or "anyone who reads this is stupid". If you don't like a book that's totally fine and valid, but these types of reviews don't share someone's opinion, they're just negative and cruel. Even if someone just said "I didn't like this one" that's a lot nicer than being disrespectful to the author and readers.
I think we can discuss books with a little more respect for each other, the book and the author -- even if we don't like them. But that seems so hard to do on Goodreads. I've found that I only login to update what books I've read and spend time on other platforms like Substack and Instagram to discuss my reading experience with others 🤎
Yes, I agree! I'm someone who values honest reviews wherever they fall on the spectrum of dislike to love, but especially when writing a negative review it needs to be thoughtfully done. It is rude to disparage an author's work. It's fine not to like something, but it literally helps no one to say "this books sucks" or something along those lines. People can be so unnecessarily mean from behind a screen.
Have you checked out Storygraph? I really love that platform for tracking my reading and it's set up in such a way that's not as review-based as Goodreads. Like, the reviews are there, but a star rating and list of reviews are not the first thing you're confronted with.
Oh, you should definitely give it a try! If you primarily use Goodreads for tracking your reading Storygraph does this so much better and provides fun stats as well!
I'm on Goodreads, Librarything and Storygraph and I use them all slightly differently.
As Goodreads was th OG, I initially moved my manual reading record on there and then tried to keep track of books I owned and wanted to read. I found Librarything much better for book cataloguing but haven't engaged in discussions on there much. The advent of Storygraph means i now use that to track my reading activity more actively as I love the data but I still use Goodreads and enjoy the community on there.
I think perhaps the issue with reviews is not the reviews themselves but people's ability or inclination to read them critically. Just because someone lambasts a book on Goodreads, that doesn't mean I won't read and enjoy it. We have to allow for different tastes and reading preferences and make our own decisions.
Yes! I actually really appreciate a thoughtfully written negative review and write them myself. We're not going to love every book we read and that's part of the fun of reading and discussing, I think! There's a way to do this constructively. And I suspect most people who use Goodreads likely feel similarly. Like, they're not going to immediately write off a book just because it's not rated 5 stars on Goodreads.
And I actually started on LibraryThing! I switched over to Goodreads in 2009. As I recall I did it because LT was shutting down, but obviously that's not the case! I'm not sure what exactly happened at the time to prompt the switch.
I also appreciate a thoughtful negative review but I never write them myself. I figure that someone else might love this book and it’s not up to me to be snobbish about other people’s reading preferences. I love talking about books and finding out what other people are reading but I don’t use Goodreads and never have. Don’t like the interface!
I have a little newsletter where I share what I’m reading, but I don’t really think of myself as a book reviewer, more of book recommender. I like to think I have very good taste (ha ha ha) and if I like a book, other readers might like it too.
I haven’t listened to the podcast yet—I will now and I appreciate having your forewarning!! But I really appreciate your take and I am often frustrated by what feels like elitism from professional book critics and misunderstanding from authors about the online worlds of readers. Of course there’s a difference between professional criticism and reader reviews but there’s 1000% room for both!! And reader reviews are often more helpful for readers because, like you said, we’re talking to each other. We know our audience!
Yes! I value critical reviews and reader reviews, and those that blend the two (and everything in between.) The more discourse about books the better! If you listen to the episode I'd be so interested to hear your thoughts. Though they brought up some very valid points the vibe was just off for me in a really disappointing and unexpected way.
I stopped giving star ratings to books this year, and now solely use goodreads to track books I’ve read and want to read - for this (and to be able to see what my friends are reading) I like goodreads much more than storygraph. I actually like the fundamental concept of goodreads (though I don’t really like that it’s owned by Amazon) and I think if they kept the written reviews but got rid of the star ratings, which I think serves to commodifies books as goods and not art, it would be close to perfect for me!
I tend to appreciate star ratings when they're coming from reviewers I know as a sort of a shorthand. I know what a 3- or 4-star means coming from them. That said, I totally appreciate the drawbacks of star ratings and I could certainly lose them in a setting like Goodreads and not miss them! And I do hear you about ratings vs reviews in general and the way that cheapens art. See, this would definitely make for a touchpoint in an interesting conversation on book reviewing!
Good point! I like that aspect of Instagram and Substack, because the more I hear from a reader the more I understand their taste - and so over time I start to trust their reviews.
And for some people, rating a book works and they might like that option. Maybe just getting rid of the overall average would be nice? Because of course, a 1-star for someone could be a 5-star for someone else, so I’m not really sure what to do with a 3.21.
Either way you bring up great points and I think these things are really interesting to consider!
Yes! I love getting to know a readers taste and being able to trust their recs and reviews! Even if our reading tastes don't perfectly align it's still so helpful to get insight from a trusted reader.
And you're right, reviews are generally subjective, but star ratings are super subjective and lack the context of written reviews! They really can be harmful in a setting like Goodreads when that's the very first thing that's seen.
And if you don't know how someone defines a 3-star it's really not at all helpful. Like, for me a 3-star read is enjoyable. Maybe nothing that blew my socks off or will really stay with me, but I liked it. For other people that's a very low rating. If I give a book 5-stars it's really an exceptional reading experience. I think this is fair, but when you think of the way it plays into averages and such it does become more complicated.
I agree completely with your feelings on Goodreads, I think they can do so much better but at the same time I always use it haha I also keep track of my readings on Storygraph but I don't follow anyone (I like the stats).
The Great Believers sounds great, I recently bought I have some questions for you (haven't read it yet) so I'm glad that you loved it!
Yeah, the community aspect is just different on Storygraph. I feel like it's actually well built to supplement other online communities, like Bookstagram, BookTok, Bookgraph(? haha, I might have just made that up) but places where book talk is happening already. And then Storygraph is a good place to track reading, be able to see friend's reading at a glance, organize buddy reads or reading challenges, that sort of thing.
I read I Have Some Questions For You... earlier this year? Last year? I can't remember now. I liked it. I LOVED Great Believers though! I think I'm glad I read Questions first. IMO they're just very different books and if I had started with Great Believers I might have been disappointed with Questions, you know?
So waaaaaay back in the early 2000s I made the choice to join librarything vs Goodreads. Both platforms had about the same number of users back then, but I liked the data that Librarything provided. Once Goodreads was bought by amazon, librarything didnt have a chance of growth.
I still use librarything even though the phone app is terrible. The desktop platform feels very 2007 and I’ve been following some readers reviews for almost 20 years. After a few years of tracking on goodreads and storygraph, librarything still provides me the best recommendations.
I know this isnt related much to your thoughts, except I like that there are still little companies that are somehow surviving among the behemoths.
Yes!! And, actually, I think this is very related bc my theory on why Goodreads sucks is because it has such a large share of the market! All these apps are community based to an extent and if you don't have a critical mass of users then the community isn't there. I really like Storygraph for tracking my reading and I think it's a neat app in a lot of ways but it has far less users so the community aspect is different than Goodreads. This is why I use both.
And also, I actually started on LibraryThing too!! I loved that platform! I've been on Goodreads since 2009. I can't recall exactly why I switched but I always thought it was because LibraryThing shut down? Obviously not bc you're still on it! I'm not sure what happened but I do very much remember feeling like I had to switch. Do you know anything that might have been happening in 2009 to make me feel that way? Maybe I'm just misremembering!
I just looked up LTs membership and it says 2.5 million members (wikipedia so who knows). You are right that the audience size is a big part of it. That’s why at one point I created a GRs to follow my friends. From early interviews with the storygraph creator, I dont think she wanted it to be mainly a community platform but that’s the feedback that keeps coming as people make the switch.
I’m not sure about 2009. Amazon bought goodreads in 2013 so too early for that. There was a point where you could pay $25 to be a lifelong member and it opened up a couple areas. Some people on the message boards thought it was terrible. I dont remember it being as early as 2009 though.
Librarything was how I first got into ARCs. I joined their early reviewer program. They used to have better books like I got Olive Kitteridge the year before it was published. Now it’s mainly very small publishers but I’ve gotten some worthwhile ones every now and again.
Yeah, I really enjoy Storygraph's features but I don't think it's meant to be a replacement for GR. I think really we're looking for an app "everyone" is on, but really I think we just want GR to be better, maybe.
I’m late to this party but just wanted to share that my pet hate is a 1 star rating with no review. I need to know how you came to that conclusion! I want to be able to make an assessment of whether my thinking might be similar to yours when choosing to purchase a book. An author put their blood, sweat and tears into this project, there has to be some justification.
I still use Goodreads and I’ve been on it since 2006. I don’t generally read reviews before I read books, but I read them after I’m done to see if I can find a reviewer who was able to express a point of view that aligns with my own! I don’t write a lot of reviews though I get a few ARCS a year on NetGalley and provide feedback on those. I only share to other social media/tag authors if I am giving a 5 star review.
I struggle so much with Goodreads because I absolutely LOVE being able to have a space to log the books I have read, but I also hate how much negatively is on there.
As readers we don't have to like everything we read (that's downright impossible!), but I strongly dislike coming across reviews that say things like "this book sucks" or "this author doesn't know how to write" or "anyone who reads this is stupid". If you don't like a book that's totally fine and valid, but these types of reviews don't share someone's opinion, they're just negative and cruel. Even if someone just said "I didn't like this one" that's a lot nicer than being disrespectful to the author and readers.
I think we can discuss books with a little more respect for each other, the book and the author -- even if we don't like them. But that seems so hard to do on Goodreads. I've found that I only login to update what books I've read and spend time on other platforms like Substack and Instagram to discuss my reading experience with others 🤎
Yes, I agree! I'm someone who values honest reviews wherever they fall on the spectrum of dislike to love, but especially when writing a negative review it needs to be thoughtfully done. It is rude to disparage an author's work. It's fine not to like something, but it literally helps no one to say "this books sucks" or something along those lines. People can be so unnecessarily mean from behind a screen.
Have you checked out Storygraph? I really love that platform for tracking my reading and it's set up in such a way that's not as review-based as Goodreads. Like, the reviews are there, but a star rating and list of reviews are not the first thing you're confronted with.
I've never used Storygraph, but this is making me want to move over to that platform. I'll definitely check it out, thank you! 🤎
Oh, you should definitely give it a try! If you primarily use Goodreads for tracking your reading Storygraph does this so much better and provides fun stats as well!
I'm on Goodreads, Librarything and Storygraph and I use them all slightly differently.
As Goodreads was th OG, I initially moved my manual reading record on there and then tried to keep track of books I owned and wanted to read. I found Librarything much better for book cataloguing but haven't engaged in discussions on there much. The advent of Storygraph means i now use that to track my reading activity more actively as I love the data but I still use Goodreads and enjoy the community on there.
I think perhaps the issue with reviews is not the reviews themselves but people's ability or inclination to read them critically. Just because someone lambasts a book on Goodreads, that doesn't mean I won't read and enjoy it. We have to allow for different tastes and reading preferences and make our own decisions.
Yes! I actually really appreciate a thoughtfully written negative review and write them myself. We're not going to love every book we read and that's part of the fun of reading and discussing, I think! There's a way to do this constructively. And I suspect most people who use Goodreads likely feel similarly. Like, they're not going to immediately write off a book just because it's not rated 5 stars on Goodreads.
And I actually started on LibraryThing! I switched over to Goodreads in 2009. As I recall I did it because LT was shutting down, but obviously that's not the case! I'm not sure what exactly happened at the time to prompt the switch.
I also appreciate a thoughtful negative review but I never write them myself. I figure that someone else might love this book and it’s not up to me to be snobbish about other people’s reading preferences. I love talking about books and finding out what other people are reading but I don’t use Goodreads and never have. Don’t like the interface!
I have a little newsletter where I share what I’m reading, but I don’t really think of myself as a book reviewer, more of book recommender. I like to think I have very good taste (ha ha ha) and if I like a book, other readers might like it too.
Yes! Sometimes what someone hates about a book might be what makes me love it!
I haven’t listened to the podcast yet—I will now and I appreciate having your forewarning!! But I really appreciate your take and I am often frustrated by what feels like elitism from professional book critics and misunderstanding from authors about the online worlds of readers. Of course there’s a difference between professional criticism and reader reviews but there’s 1000% room for both!! And reader reviews are often more helpful for readers because, like you said, we’re talking to each other. We know our audience!
Yes! I value critical reviews and reader reviews, and those that blend the two (and everything in between.) The more discourse about books the better! If you listen to the episode I'd be so interested to hear your thoughts. Though they brought up some very valid points the vibe was just off for me in a really disappointing and unexpected way.
I stopped giving star ratings to books this year, and now solely use goodreads to track books I’ve read and want to read - for this (and to be able to see what my friends are reading) I like goodreads much more than storygraph. I actually like the fundamental concept of goodreads (though I don’t really like that it’s owned by Amazon) and I think if they kept the written reviews but got rid of the star ratings, which I think serves to commodifies books as goods and not art, it would be close to perfect for me!
I tend to appreciate star ratings when they're coming from reviewers I know as a sort of a shorthand. I know what a 3- or 4-star means coming from them. That said, I totally appreciate the drawbacks of star ratings and I could certainly lose them in a setting like Goodreads and not miss them! And I do hear you about ratings vs reviews in general and the way that cheapens art. See, this would definitely make for a touchpoint in an interesting conversation on book reviewing!
Good point! I like that aspect of Instagram and Substack, because the more I hear from a reader the more I understand their taste - and so over time I start to trust their reviews.
And for some people, rating a book works and they might like that option. Maybe just getting rid of the overall average would be nice? Because of course, a 1-star for someone could be a 5-star for someone else, so I’m not really sure what to do with a 3.21.
Either way you bring up great points and I think these things are really interesting to consider!
Yes! I love getting to know a readers taste and being able to trust their recs and reviews! Even if our reading tastes don't perfectly align it's still so helpful to get insight from a trusted reader.
And you're right, reviews are generally subjective, but star ratings are super subjective and lack the context of written reviews! They really can be harmful in a setting like Goodreads when that's the very first thing that's seen.
And if you don't know how someone defines a 3-star it's really not at all helpful. Like, for me a 3-star read is enjoyable. Maybe nothing that blew my socks off or will really stay with me, but I liked it. For other people that's a very low rating. If I give a book 5-stars it's really an exceptional reading experience. I think this is fair, but when you think of the way it plays into averages and such it does become more complicated.
Definitely! Even just getting to know how others rate and review books is really interesting - you’re sparking such great discussions 😊
I agree completely with your feelings on Goodreads, I think they can do so much better but at the same time I always use it haha I also keep track of my readings on Storygraph but I don't follow anyone (I like the stats).
The Great Believers sounds great, I recently bought I have some questions for you (haven't read it yet) so I'm glad that you loved it!
Yeah, the community aspect is just different on Storygraph. I feel like it's actually well built to supplement other online communities, like Bookstagram, BookTok, Bookgraph(? haha, I might have just made that up) but places where book talk is happening already. And then Storygraph is a good place to track reading, be able to see friend's reading at a glance, organize buddy reads or reading challenges, that sort of thing.
I read I Have Some Questions For You... earlier this year? Last year? I can't remember now. I liked it. I LOVED Great Believers though! I think I'm glad I read Questions first. IMO they're just very different books and if I had started with Great Believers I might have been disappointed with Questions, you know?
I'll keep that in mind :D
So waaaaaay back in the early 2000s I made the choice to join librarything vs Goodreads. Both platforms had about the same number of users back then, but I liked the data that Librarything provided. Once Goodreads was bought by amazon, librarything didnt have a chance of growth.
I still use librarything even though the phone app is terrible. The desktop platform feels very 2007 and I’ve been following some readers reviews for almost 20 years. After a few years of tracking on goodreads and storygraph, librarything still provides me the best recommendations.
I know this isnt related much to your thoughts, except I like that there are still little companies that are somehow surviving among the behemoths.
Yes!! And, actually, I think this is very related bc my theory on why Goodreads sucks is because it has such a large share of the market! All these apps are community based to an extent and if you don't have a critical mass of users then the community isn't there. I really like Storygraph for tracking my reading and I think it's a neat app in a lot of ways but it has far less users so the community aspect is different than Goodreads. This is why I use both.
And also, I actually started on LibraryThing too!! I loved that platform! I've been on Goodreads since 2009. I can't recall exactly why I switched but I always thought it was because LibraryThing shut down? Obviously not bc you're still on it! I'm not sure what happened but I do very much remember feeling like I had to switch. Do you know anything that might have been happening in 2009 to make me feel that way? Maybe I'm just misremembering!
I just looked up LTs membership and it says 2.5 million members (wikipedia so who knows). You are right that the audience size is a big part of it. That’s why at one point I created a GRs to follow my friends. From early interviews with the storygraph creator, I dont think she wanted it to be mainly a community platform but that’s the feedback that keeps coming as people make the switch.
I’m not sure about 2009. Amazon bought goodreads in 2013 so too early for that. There was a point where you could pay $25 to be a lifelong member and it opened up a couple areas. Some people on the message boards thought it was terrible. I dont remember it being as early as 2009 though.
Librarything was how I first got into ARCs. I joined their early reviewer program. They used to have better books like I got Olive Kitteridge the year before it was published. Now it’s mainly very small publishers but I’ve gotten some worthwhile ones every now and again.
And I definitely got my first ARC from LT too! I'm trying to remember what it was, I can't believe I can't remember!
Yeah, I really enjoy Storygraph's features but I don't think it's meant to be a replacement for GR. I think really we're looking for an app "everyone" is on, but really I think we just want GR to be better, maybe.
I’m late to this party but just wanted to share that my pet hate is a 1 star rating with no review. I need to know how you came to that conclusion! I want to be able to make an assessment of whether my thinking might be similar to yours when choosing to purchase a book. An author put their blood, sweat and tears into this project, there has to be some justification.
I still use Goodreads and I’ve been on it since 2006. I don’t generally read reviews before I read books, but I read them after I’m done to see if I can find a reviewer who was able to express a point of view that aligns with my own! I don’t write a lot of reviews though I get a few ARCS a year on NetGalley and provide feedback on those. I only share to other social media/tag authors if I am giving a 5 star review.
This: I think maybe we could solve a lot of modern problems by bringing back disco, I’m just saying. Yes! 😂